[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":998},["ShallowReactive",2],{"media-is-private-credit-cooked":3},{"post":4,"related":865},{"published":5,"id":6,"date":7,"slug":8,"title":9,"excerpt":10,"seo":11,"podcast":12,"thumbnail":11,"cat":11,"content":16},"2026-06-08T13:53:54.706+01:00","FjoPoB5DQq2oqfwbNmYpiw","2026-03-22","is-private-credit-cooked"," Is Private Credit Cooked?","Justin Roberti and Dingo dig into the SEC's tokenized-stock approval, mounting stress in private credit, and what it all means for decentralization. They also cover AI's impact on software lending and give an update on Saffron's ongoing vault testing.",null,{"file":13,"episode":15},{"url":14},"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1780923063-saffron-files-3-22-26_episode_5.mp3",5,{"value":17,"blocks":864},{"schema":18,"document":19},"dast",{"type":20,"children":21},"root",[22,38,50,54,58,65,73,80,84,88,92,98,104,108,112,116,120,124,128,132,136,140,146,150,154,158,162,166,170,174,180,184,188,194,198,202,206,210,214,218,224,228,232,236,242,255,259,263,267,271,275,279,285,289,295,299,303,309,313,322,326,330,334,338,342,346,350,354,358,362,366,370,374,378,382,386,390,394,400,404,408,412,416,420,424,428,432,436,440,444,448,452,456,460,464,468,472,478,482,488,494,498,504,508,512,516,520,524,528,532,536,540,544,548,554,558,562,566,570,574,578,582,586,590,594,598,602,605,611,615,619,623,627,631,635,639,643,647,651,655,659,665,669,673,677,681,685,689,693,697,706,710,714,718,722,726,732,736,742,748,752,756,760,764,768,772,778,785,789,795,799,803,807,811,815,819,824,828,834,838,842,846,850,854,858],{"type":23,"children":24},"paragraph",[25,28,32,34],{"type":26,"value":27},"span","In this episode of ",{"type":26,"marks":29,"value":31},[30],"emphasis","Saffron Files",{"type":26,"value":33},", Justin Roberti and Dingo discuss the SEC’s approval of tokenized stock and ETF trading, the growing integration between TradFi and DeFi, and the risks that institutional control could pose to decentralization. They also examine mounting stress in private-credit markets, AI’s impact on software lending, the advantages of on-chain transparency, and Saffron’s ongoing vault testing and research.\n\n",{"type":26,"marks":35,"value":37},[36],"strong","Transcript",{"type":23,"children":39},[40,43,45,48],{"type":26,"marks":41,"value":42},[36],"Justin Roberti (00:01)",{"type":26,"value":44},"\nHey there, this is Justin Roberti, and I have Dingo with me. Welcome to another episode of ",{"type":26,"marks":46,"value":47},[30],"The Saffron Files",{"type":26,"value":49},". Thank you very much for joining us today. We’re glad that you’ve decided to tune in.",{"type":23,"children":51},[52],{"type":26,"value":53},"We’re going to talk a little bit about the SEC and what should be some of the biggest news in all of crypto since the beginning, as far as I’m concerned: the SEC approving Nasdaq’s proposal to let certain stocks and ETFs trade in tokenized form.",{"type":23,"children":55},[56],{"type":26,"value":57},"Dingo, what do you think? Are we changing everything?",{"type":23,"children":59},[60,63],{"type":26,"marks":61,"value":62},[36],"Dingo:",{"type":26,"value":64},"\nIt could very well be. I guess we’ll have to dig in and see some more.",{"type":23,"children":66},[67,69,71],{"type":26,"value":68},"We’ve also spent some time refining our ",{"type":26,"marks":70,"value":31},[30],{"type":26,"value":72}," studio to get some improved quality here, and I think you guys will really enjoy it.",{"type":23,"children":74},[75,78],{"type":26,"marks":76,"value":77},[36],"Justin:",{"type":26,"value":79},"\nYeah. We found that up to 12% of the dulcet tones of Dingo were being lost in the other format, so we decided to use a better recording format.",{"type":23,"children":81},[82],{"type":26,"value":83},"It was a little bit choppy using the native video-meeting format integrated into Telegram, so Dingo suggested that we try something better here. I think the sound quality should be better, so we hope that you guys like it.",{"type":23,"children":85},[86],{"type":26,"value":87},"All right, so we’re going to talk about that SEC story that I just mentioned. We’re also going to talk about the waning availability of private credit.",{"type":23,"children":89},[90],{"type":26,"value":91},"It’s always heartbreaking to me to hear about poor old BlackRock having problems. I worry about those guys going without, don’t you?",{"type":23,"children":93},[94,96],{"type":26,"marks":95,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":97},"\nWon’t someone think of the billionaires, please?",{"type":23,"children":99},[100,102],{"type":26,"marks":101,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":103},"\nExactly. Won’t somebody think of the ultra-wealthy?",{"type":23,"children":105},[106],{"type":26,"value":107},"All right, let’s talk about the SEC approving Nasdaq’s proposal to let certain stocks and ETFs trade in tokenized form.",{"type":23,"children":109},[110],{"type":26,"value":111},"This is a huge step forward in bringing blockchain-based settlement into mainstream U.S. equity markets. Folks, we’re not just looking at mainstreaming. We’re looking at crossover projects between TradFi and blockchain, and more things being brought on-chain. We’ll talk more about that when we get into the private-credit section of our story, too.",{"type":23,"children":113},[114],{"type":26,"value":115},"Investors will be able to trade eligible securities either as traditional shares or blockchain-based digital tokens. You can tell that this is from Reuters: “blockchain-based digital tokens,” otherwise known as tokens.",{"type":23,"children":117},[118],{"type":26,"value":119},"Settlement will still go through the Depository Trust Company, so it’s not a fully separate, crypto-native market.",{"type":23,"children":121},[122],{"type":26,"value":123},"The first wave of eligible assets is limited to Russell 1000 stocks and ETFs tied to major benchmarks such as the S&P 500 and Nasdaq.",{"type":23,"children":125},[126],{"type":26,"value":127},"Nasdaq originally filed the rule change in September. The approval means tokenized shares can sit within the existing regulated market structure instead of outside it.",{"type":23,"children":129},[130],{"type":26,"value":131},"This also looks like the start of a larger exchange race because ICE, the parent company of the New York Stock Exchange, is also seeking approval for a platform for trading and on-chain settlement of tokenized securities.",{"type":23,"children":133},[134],{"type":26,"value":135},"So, Dingo, is this the beginning of tokenized equities becoming regular market infrastructure, or are we still looking at a blockchain wrapper around the same old things we’ve gotten from Wall Street?",{"type":23,"children":137},[138],{"type":26,"value":139},"It kind of sounds like that’s where we’re starting. Is there anything new in this news? What do you think?",{"type":23,"children":141},[142,144],{"type":26,"marks":143,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":145},"\nWell, I think when you zoom out a little bit, you have to look at the broader picture.",{"type":23,"children":147},[148],{"type":26,"value":149},"We’ve written about similar, adjacent things, such as Kraken getting a Fed master account and the tokenization work being done by Ondo.",{"type":23,"children":151},[152],{"type":26,"value":153},"Everyone here who has been reading my articles knows that I’m a huge proponent of tokenization and RWAs becoming this great bridge between TradFi and DeFi.",{"type":23,"children":155},[156],{"type":26,"value":157},"I look at this as the very first step. It’s not the full transformation, but I think what Nasdaq has done here is legitimize tokenization as a format within the existing system. It’s not really replacing the system itself.",{"type":23,"children":159},[160],{"type":26,"value":161},"Right now, we’re seeing tokenized equities function more like a digital wrapper than a new market structure.",{"type":23,"children":163},[164],{"type":26,"value":165},"As I’ve said before, this is an important bridge. It’s not the full enchilada, as it were, but it is an important bridge because I feel like it opens the door for these assets to eventually become more programmable and composable.",{"type":23,"children":167},[168],{"type":26,"value":169},"I feel like the real shift happens when you see settlement and ownership fully move on-chain, which I think we’re still a ways away from.",{"type":23,"children":171},[172],{"type":26,"value":173},"But it is really reassuring to see, and it does put some wind beneath your wings, as it were, that we’re seeing real adoption here and seeing the railways paved toward that. So it is pretty exciting.",{"type":23,"children":175},[176,178],{"type":26,"marks":177,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":179},"\nDo you get the feeling that we should be freaking out about this more?",{"type":23,"children":181},[182],{"type":26,"value":183},"This is way bigger than any endorsement. It’s way bigger than, “Elon Musk said crypto was good today,” and watching the industry jump over that kind of thing.",{"type":23,"children":185},[186],{"type":26,"value":187},"This should be some of the biggest news ever, don’t you think?",{"type":23,"children":189},[190,192],{"type":26,"marks":191,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":193},"\nYeah, I get that.",{"type":23,"children":195},[196],{"type":26,"value":197},"I think we, as an industry, have been beaten down so badly over the past 18 months or so—probably since the beginning of 2025, so a little over 14 months—that a lot of us are afraid to hope again, afraid to love again.",{"type":23,"children":199},[200],{"type":26,"value":201},"There are a lot of people, especially on crypto Twitter, predicting a bear market, which could still very well happen.",{"type":23,"children":203},[204],{"type":26,"value":205},"But right now, we’re in this really uncharted territory where we’ve clearly done away with the four-year cycles. Whether that is something permanent going forward or whether this is just a weird adoption phase where we do away with the four-year cycles remains to be seen.",{"type":23,"children":207},[208],{"type":26,"value":209},"But yeah, I think this should be a bigger news story than it is.",{"type":23,"children":211},[212],{"type":26,"value":213},"I was also really surprised that the Kraken article I wrote about two weeks ago, about Kraken getting access to a Fed master account, wasn’t a bigger news story.",{"type":23,"children":215},[216],{"type":26,"value":217},"We’ll see what happens.",{"type":23,"children":219},[220,222],{"type":26,"marks":221,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":223},"\nYeah, definitely.",{"type":23,"children":225},[226],{"type":26,"value":227},"Of course, it raises the specter of when you stare into the abyss of fintech, it stares back into you.",{"type":23,"children":229},[230],{"type":26,"value":231},"Folks at home, we have to remember that our entire market is a tiny fraction compared to their market. We are not a big area of the space, comparatively speaking.",{"type":23,"children":233},[234],{"type":26,"value":235},"So are we looking at a wonderful, productive marriage between crypto, blockchain and TradFi? Or are we looking at our new overlords, with Nasdaq and ICE running the show or racing to own those rails for tokenized securities in the U.S.?",{"type":23,"children":237},[238,240],{"type":26,"marks":239,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":241},"\nYeah, I think this is going to be an existential question that some of us are going to have to start asking ourselves.",{"type":23,"children":243},[244,246,249,251,253],{"type":26,"value":245},"It’s an elephant in the room right now. It’s something we’ve talked about on your show, ",{"type":26,"marks":247,"value":248},[30],"When Altseason?",{"type":26,"value":250},", and it’s something we’ve talked about on ",{"type":26,"marks":252,"value":47},[30],{"type":26,"value":254},".",{"type":23,"children":256},[257],{"type":26,"value":258},"There is going to be—and it’s rapidly approaching, I feel like—a point where we have to ask how we can maintain and hang on to the ethos of what DeFi is and what DeFi brings to so many unbanked people across the world, while still seeing these integrations come in.",{"type":23,"children":260},[261],{"type":26,"value":262},"I think that’s going to be a slippery slope for a lot of people.",{"type":23,"children":264},[265],{"type":26,"value":266},"It seems to be working out in TradFi’s favor that we’re also coincidentally down really badly in the market right now.",{"type":23,"children":268},[269],{"type":26,"value":270},"When I say down really badly, Bitcoin is above the all-time high it reached in 2021, but that was also almost five years ago at this point.",{"type":23,"children":272},[273],{"type":26,"value":274},"I wonder if us being in a more vulnerable position as an industry, and being desperate for any sort of olive branch, will make us more inclined to make concessions about these integrations that we otherwise wouldn’t make.",{"type":23,"children":276},[277],{"type":26,"value":278},"That’s something that concerns me a little bit.",{"type":23,"children":280},[281,283],{"type":26,"marks":282,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":284},"\nSure. And what’s going to happen to decentralization?",{"type":23,"children":286},[287],{"type":26,"value":288},"I have a feeling that only about half of the people in our space seem to be concerned about that, and I don’t think anybody on their side is.",{"type":23,"children":290},[291,293],{"type":26,"marks":292,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":294},"\nRight. Why would they be?",{"type":23,"children":296},[297],{"type":26,"value":298},"You have to look at where the incentives lie. Why would TradFi be concerned about decentralization?",{"type":23,"children":300},[301],{"type":26,"value":302},"In fact, they would want the opposite. They would want to centralize as much as possible.",{"type":23,"children":304},[305,307],{"type":26,"marks":306,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":308},"\nSure. Centralization means control, and capital does tend to consolidate, after all.",{"type":23,"children":310},[311],{"type":26,"value":312},"We’re going to move on to our next subject, which is equally weighty in a lot of ways. It affects the trajectory of our entire space, and really tech overall, in 2026.",{"type":23,"children":314},[315,317,320],{"type":26,"value":316},"We’ve got a story by Simon Taylor of ",{"type":26,"marks":318,"value":319},[30],"Fintech Brainfood",{"type":26,"value":321},". The title was, “Is Private Credit Cooked?”",{"type":23,"children":323},[324],{"type":26,"value":325},"His point seems to be not that private credit is cooked in a 2008 sense, because they can gate the rate at which withdrawals are being taken, but the system is under real stress, especially where software and SaaS exposure meets redemption pressure.",{"type":23,"children":327},[328],{"type":26,"value":329},"For example, BlackRock’s $26 billion HPS Corporate Lending Fund received about $1.2 billion in redemption requests and could not meet $580 million of them, so the fund was gated.",{"type":23,"children":331},[332],{"type":26,"value":333},"BlackRock put more than $400 million of its own capital into an $82 billion BCRED private-credit fund after redemption requests hit $3.7 billion.",{"type":23,"children":335},[336],{"type":26,"value":337},"Cliffwater’s $33 billion flagship fund capped redemptions at 7%.",{"type":23,"children":339},[340],{"type":26,"value":341},"Morgan Stanley’s North Haven Private Income Fund had a similar problem and reportedly returned less than half of what investors requested.",{"type":23,"children":343},[344],{"type":26,"value":345},"That seems to be the theme.",{"type":23,"children":347},[348],{"type":26,"value":349},"Folks, overall industry-wide quarterly redemption requests in the first quarter of 2026 are running at about 8%, versus 1.3% in 2024.",{"type":23,"children":351},[352],{"type":26,"value":353},"So people are trying to take money out. People are looking a little bit nervous.",{"type":23,"children":355},[356],{"type":26,"value":357},"The weak point especially appears to be software. Software and technology reportedly make up about 25% of the private-credit market.",{"type":23,"children":359},[360],{"type":26,"value":361},"Some think AI disruption exposure could be as high as 25% to 35%.",{"type":23,"children":363},[364],{"type":26,"value":365},"SaaS multiples were around 24 times at the end of last year and fell to around 18 times by 2025. The median now sits closer to 16 times.",{"type":23,"children":367},[368],{"type":26,"value":369},"That makes a lot of older software loans look less comfortable than they were when they were originally established.",{"type":23,"children":371},[372],{"type":26,"value":373},"The market reaction has been ugly. More than $265 billion in market capitalization has reportedly been erased across alternative-asset managers.",{"type":23,"children":375},[376],{"type":26,"value":377},"The biggest question is whether this creates an opening for banks to reclaim the credit-creation part of the market that they lost in 2008, especially as tokenized deposits, stablecoins and on-chain payment rails continue becoming more real.",{"type":23,"children":379},[380],{"type":26,"value":381},"There’s a lot going on here, and again, there are industry-wide ramifications.",{"type":23,"children":383},[384],{"type":26,"value":385},"Dingo, I’m sure you’ll agree.",{"type":23,"children":387},[388],{"type":26,"value":389},"If BlackRock, Blackstone, Cliffwater and Morgan Stanley are all dealing with redemption pressure at the same time, are we still calling this a contained repricing, or are we already looking at the early stages of a confidence event?",{"type":23,"children":391},[392],{"type":26,"value":393},"What do you think, Dingo?",{"type":23,"children":395},[396,398],{"type":26,"marks":397,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":399},"\nI think it’s a little bit of both. I know that’s the diplomatic answer.",{"type":23,"children":401},[402],{"type":26,"value":403},"Some people might be listening to us and wondering how this necessarily pertains to DeFi.",{"type":23,"children":405},[406],{"type":26,"value":407},"I think it pertains to DeFi in multiple ways, but the most interesting one to me is obvious to anyone familiar with the 2008 crisis.",{"type":23,"children":409},[410],{"type":26,"value":411},"This is a core weakness showing its head again in traditional credit markets.",{"type":23,"children":413},[414],{"type":26,"value":415},"At the end of the day, it’s essentially a liquidity mismatch hidden behind structures that we can’t see.",{"type":23,"children":417},[418],{"type":26,"value":419},"Private credit—just because something is private doesn’t mean it’s also liquid.",{"type":23,"children":421},[422],{"type":26,"value":423},"Private credit can appear stable until these redemptions hit. Then, when you see gates getting reduced, it breaks the expectation of having easy access.",{"type":23,"children":425},[426],{"type":26,"value":427},"One of the reasons why we’re all such big proponents of DeFi is that when you see this sort of thing starting to happen in DeFi, you can literally start to see it.",{"type":23,"children":429},[430],{"type":26,"value":431},"It isn’t hidden behind a traditional credit market. It isn’t hidden behind the kinds of structures that caused the 2008 crash.",{"type":23,"children":433},[434],{"type":26,"value":435},"You’re able to see liquidity, collateral and withdrawal conditions in real time. You can look it up on Etherscan, Solscan or whatever particular chain you prefer.",{"type":23,"children":437},[438],{"type":26,"value":439},"I feel like this really highlights how important DeFi is because events like this tend to reinforce the significant value of transparency and on-chain visibility that you don’t get with TradFi.",{"type":23,"children":441},[442],{"type":26,"value":443},"It’s another reminder that the statement, “Everything is stable in TradFi,” often just means, “This hasn’t really been stressed yet, but it’s working for now.”",{"type":23,"children":445},[446],{"type":26,"value":447},"To your original question, I think it is a little bit of both.",{"type":23,"children":449},[450],{"type":26,"value":451},"I think there are differences right now compared with 2008, which was the last time this bear reared its head.",{"type":23,"children":453},[454],{"type":26,"value":455},"But let’s be honest: when you’re seeing multiple major players in this industry all facing redemption pressure at once, it is a clear signal that liquidity mismatches are being stress-tested.",{"type":23,"children":457},[458],{"type":26,"value":459},"I think when we’re in a higher-rate environment like this, this is the time when things start showing cracks and potentially breaking.",{"type":23,"children":461},[462],{"type":26,"value":463},"I don’t want to spread panic with any of this stuff, but this is definitely an early sign of pressure showing that the system may not be as infallible as we thought.",{"type":23,"children":465},[466],{"type":26,"value":467},"I think a lot of us in crypto inherently know that the system that caused the 2008 collapse is built on matchsticks and that, if enough pressures and stressors occur, it is going to crack somewhere.",{"type":23,"children":469},[470],{"type":26,"value":471},"It just depends on how much contagion we end up seeing from that.",{"type":23,"children":473},[474,476],{"type":26,"marks":475,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":477},"\nFrankly, I think the 2008 collapse is what got a lot of people interested in our space.",{"type":23,"children":479},[480],{"type":26,"value":481},"At least, I’ve heard many people mention that when talking about their origin stories, based on the people I’ve interviewed over the past several years.",{"type":23,"children":483},[484,486],{"type":26,"marks":485,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":487},"\nYeah. Bitcoin was created as a direct response to the 2008 collapse.",{"type":23,"children":489},[490,492],{"type":26,"marks":491,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":493},"\nRight.",{"type":23,"children":495},[496],{"type":26,"value":497},"If software and technology make up about a quarter of the overall private-credit market, or even slightly more, have we spent a decade underwriting the exact business model that AI is now apparently stretching to the breaking point?",{"type":23,"children":499},[500,502],{"type":26,"marks":501,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":503},"\nThat’s a really good question.",{"type":23,"children":505},[506],{"type":26,"value":507},"Private credit has spent the past decade underwriting software-as-a-service businesses at valuations that consistently assumed stable recurring revenue and long-term growth.",{"type":23,"children":509},[510],{"type":26,"value":511},"This is exactly the kind of thing that peels back the curtain on what we talked about a few weeks ago.",{"type":23,"children":513},[514],{"type":26,"value":515},"Now, we’re seeing AI potentially start to compress margins, reduce pricing power and increase competition in those exact same sectors.",{"type":23,"children":517},[518],{"type":26,"value":519},"While this is happening, older loans are starting to look a little bit less secure in hindsight.",{"type":23,"children":521},[522],{"type":26,"value":523},"I don’t think software is broken. I think the assumptions behind these loans are all being challenged at once.",{"type":23,"children":525},[526],{"type":26,"value":527},"That creates a pretty large repricing risk across a significant portion of the market.",{"type":23,"children":529},[530],{"type":26,"value":531},"It creates a very uncomfortable atmosphere for everybody who is watching the markets.",{"type":23,"children":533},[534],{"type":26,"value":535},"What’s interesting is that, when you look at DeFi, risk is typically structured more mechanically.",{"type":23,"children":537},[538],{"type":26,"value":539},"You see it structured through collateral ratios, liquidation thresholds and real-time pricing.",{"type":23,"children":541},[542],{"type":26,"value":543},"That doesn’t eliminate risk altogether, but it changes significantly how quickly risk is recognized and handled.",{"type":23,"children":545},[546],{"type":26,"value":547},"It is my fervent hope that, throughout whatever ends up happening, the takeaway is that programmable risk models may adapt faster and be much more efficient than the sort of narrative-driven underwriting we’re seeing in TradFi.",{"type":23,"children":549},[550,552],{"type":26,"marks":551,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":553},"\nWell, sure.",{"type":23,"children":555},[556],{"type":26,"value":557},"It’s certainly going to look good to have a logic-based or rules-based system versus something that is ultimately driven by sentiment.",{"type":23,"children":559},[560],{"type":26,"value":561},"Folks, obviously the digital space catches a lot of flak for this because people buy based on feelings, narratives and vibes rather than logic.",{"type":23,"children":563},[564],{"type":26,"value":565},"But look at what’s going on, and what has gone on, with the stock market.",{"type":23,"children":567},[568],{"type":26,"value":569},"Look at the way Tesla’s stock was evaluated. It was all predicated on driverless cars, which haven’t materialized. It was all predicated on future bets, essentially.",{"type":23,"children":571},[572],{"type":26,"value":573},"They’re supposed to be the respectable ones, right?",{"type":23,"children":575},[576],{"type":26,"value":577},"But I think it’s kind of the same everywhere, and more so these days.",{"type":23,"children":579},[580],{"type":26,"value":581},"One last question about the private-credit issue.",{"type":23,"children":583},[584],{"type":26,"value":585},"If private credit pulls back, this is bad timing for AI.",{"type":23,"children":587},[588],{"type":26,"value":589},"AI is still doing its large infrastructure buildout. It needs massive financing.",{"type":23,"children":591},[592],{"type":26,"value":593},"Do banks take back that credit creation? Are banks going to be the ones bringing us AI now?",{"type":23,"children":595},[596],{"type":26,"value":597},"Or do more of those rails end up moving on-chain?",{"type":23,"children":599},[600],{"type":26,"value":601},"They aren’t mutually exclusive answers. Banks could also be doing more on-chain.",{"type":23,"children":603},[604],{"type":26,"value":393},{"type":23,"children":606},[607,609],{"type":26,"marks":608,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":610},"\nThis is the really interesting part about all this.",{"type":23,"children":612},[613],{"type":26,"value":614},"I think the answer I’m going to give is probably what is driving some of this adoption from BlackRock and Blackstone.",{"type":23,"children":616},[617],{"type":26,"value":618},"Logically, if private credit tightens, banks are going to be the most obvious candidates to step back in, as they have always done and as they will always want to do, especially if regulation becomes more favorable to them in that regard.",{"type":23,"children":620},[621],{"type":26,"value":622},"But the more exciting and, in my opinion, larger shift is that credit itself may start migrating toward more transparent and programmable systems.",{"type":23,"children":624},[625],{"type":26,"value":626},"As tokenized deposits, stablecoins and on-chain settlement rails mature, as they are doing right now, they create a new foundation for credit that could be faster and significantly more auditable.",{"type":23,"children":628},[629],{"type":26,"value":630},"As we’ve been saying, I don’t think this means DeFi replaces banks overnight.",{"type":23,"children":632},[633],{"type":26,"value":634},"But I do think it means the infrastructure they operate on could evolve significantly over time.",{"type":23,"children":636},[637],{"type":26,"value":638},"Over that same timeframe, I think the advantage will go to whoever can combine capital, compliance and programmable rails most effectively.",{"type":23,"children":640},[641],{"type":26,"value":642},"I think we’re in such an advantageous position in DeFi to be able to win that competition.",{"type":23,"children":644},[645],{"type":26,"value":646},"We wrote about this with Ondo.",{"type":23,"children":648},[649],{"type":26,"value":650},"The ability to provide more transparent, more flexible and more programmable rails is going to be a much bigger deal than people are recognizing right now.",{"type":23,"children":652},[653],{"type":26,"value":654},"Capital is going to flow like water.",{"type":23,"children":656},[657],{"type":26,"value":658},"Capital will flow to whichever system is the most efficient—the one that can price risk the clearest, settle the most effectively and be the most flexible in times of stress.",{"type":23,"children":660},[661,663],{"type":26,"marks":662,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":664},"\nRight. Absolutely.",{"type":23,"children":666},[667],{"type":26,"value":668},"It’s a very exciting time.",{"type":23,"children":670},[671],{"type":26,"value":672},"Honestly, folks, there are more stories like this that we’ll probably be covering over the next little while.",{"type":23,"children":674},[675],{"type":26,"value":676},"For instance, the FIFA World Cup is being positioned as a stress test for global payment systems.",{"type":23,"children":678},[679],{"type":26,"value":680},"I’m really interested because they talk about needing around $300 million in global transactions.",{"type":23,"children":682},[683],{"type":26,"value":684},"It’s pretty cool and really interesting.",{"type":23,"children":686},[687],{"type":26,"value":688},"It will be interesting to see how that works out, especially with the United States being one of the hosts and things being so friendly around here right now.",{"type":23,"children":690},[691],{"type":26,"value":692},"Anyway, let’s move on to the alpha section of the show.",{"type":23,"children":694},[695],{"type":26,"value":696},"Dingo, in terms of Saffron facts, what do you have for us this week?",{"type":23,"children":698},[699,701,703,705],{"type":26,"marks":700,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":702},"\nSaffron facts on ",{"type":26,"marks":704,"value":47},[30],{"type":26,"value":254},{"type":23,"children":707},[708],{"type":26,"value":709},"Basically, we’ve been scaling up internal vault testing a lot this week to try to get better data on how capital moves between the fixed and variable sides across different scenarios.",{"type":23,"children":711},[712],{"type":26,"value":713},"As luck would have it, the current macro environment and the sheer amount of unpredictability we’re seeing have been incredibly useful here.",{"type":23,"children":715},[716],{"type":26,"value":717},"It gives us real-world conditions to observe how these vaults behave.",{"type":23,"children":719},[720],{"type":26,"value":721},"We’ve also put a lot more effort into research and backtesting tools.",{"type":23,"children":723},[724],{"type":26,"value":725},"We’re doing a lot of work behind the scenes and under the hood right now, and we’re looking forward to being able to share that with you guys soon.",{"type":23,"children":727},[728,730],{"type":26,"marks":729,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":731},"\nYeah, absolutely.",{"type":23,"children":733},[734],{"type":26,"value":735},"It certainly is a great time to be able to stress-test a system like that because we’ve got a complicated market.",{"type":23,"children":737},[738,740],{"type":26,"marks":739,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":741},"\nOne hundred percent.",{"type":23,"children":743},[744,746],{"type":26,"marks":745,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":747},"\nIt’s been a great conversation with Dingo.",{"type":23,"children":749},[750],{"type":26,"value":751},"We’re going to be publishing more articles by the end of this week, folks.",{"type":23,"children":753},[754],{"type":26,"value":755},"We thank you for tuning in with us again and letting us share a little bit of what we’ve been thinking about lately.",{"type":23,"children":757},[758],{"type":26,"value":759},"We look forward to coming back at you again next week.",{"type":23,"children":761},[762],{"type":26,"value":763},"We hope you like the new format, which is going to have a little bit more editing and hopefully better sound quality.",{"type":23,"children":765},[766],{"type":26,"value":767},"Thank you to Dingo for working that part out.",{"type":23,"children":769},[770],{"type":26,"value":771},"Is there anything else you want to add before we close up, Dingo?",{"type":23,"children":773},[774,776],{"type":26,"marks":775,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":777},"\nNo, that’s pretty much it for this week.",{"type":23,"children":779},[780,782,784],{"type":26,"value":781},"I’m going to put a survey out, too, just to take a temperature check on how we’re handling ",{"type":26,"marks":783,"value":47},[30],{"type":26,"value":254},{"type":23,"children":786},[787],{"type":26,"value":788},"Feel free to engage with it and let us know how we’re doing.",{"type":23,"children":790},[791,793],{"type":26,"marks":792,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":794},"\nYeah, please do.",{"type":23,"children":796},[797],{"type":26,"value":798},"We aim to do this for our community, and in the spirit of transparency on our own side, feedback is always incredibly helpful.",{"type":23,"children":800},[801],{"type":26,"value":802},"Let us know what you’re thinking. We want to hear from you.",{"type":23,"children":804},[805],{"type":26,"value":806},"If you have questions for us, or even topics that you want addressed, we’ll talk about them or bring in people who can.",{"type":23,"children":808},[809],{"type":26,"value":810},"Anyway, it’s been great talking to you guys.",{"type":23,"children":812},[813],{"type":26,"value":814},"Thank you, everyone, for tuning in.",{"type":23,"children":816},[817],{"type":26,"value":818},"It’s been good talking to you, Dingo. Thanks for joining me.",{"type":23,"children":820},[821,823],{"type":26,"marks":822,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":731},{"type":23,"children":825},[826],{"type":26,"value":827},"It’s been a great conversation, and there’s so much big stuff going on right now.",{"type":23,"children":829},[830,832],{"type":26,"marks":831,"value":77},[36],{"type":26,"value":833},"\nI think that’s it for today’s show.",{"type":23,"children":835},[836],{"type":26,"value":837},"Thank you, everyone.",{"type":23,"children":839},[840],{"type":26,"value":841},"Remember to take care of yourselves. Detach from your devices at some point today if you can, at least for about 15 minutes.",{"type":23,"children":843},[844],{"type":26,"value":845},"That’s something I have to constantly remind myself to do so I can take my dog out.",{"type":23,"children":847},[848],{"type":26,"value":849},"Anyway, take care of yourselves, folks.",{"type":23,"children":851},[852],{"type":26,"value":853},"We’ll see you again next week.",{"type":23,"children":855},[856],{"type":26,"value":857},"Peace.",{"type":23,"children":859},[860,862],{"type":26,"marks":861,"value":62},[36],{"type":26,"value":863},"\nTake care. Take it easy. See you next week.",[],[866,876,886,896,906,929,950,959,979,988],{"id":867,"date":868,"slug":869,"title":870,"excerpt":871,"podcast":872,"thumbnail":11,"cat":11},"LP6CYe4ASdWpKo4n7mR89Q","2026-05-07","the-bill-that-might-actually-move","The Bill That Might Actually Move","Hosts Justin and Dingo discuss the CLARITY Act, the US government's major effort to define how crypto - especially stablecoins - fits into the traditional financial system.",{"file":873,"episode":875},{"url":874},"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1781725262-saffron-files-5-7-26.mp3",9,{"id":877,"date":878,"slug":879,"title":880,"excerpt":881,"podcast":882,"thumbnail":11,"cat":11},"bucSoFWPSkeqS2EBoMdDoA","2026-04-21","trust-isnt-given-its-earned","Trust Isn't Given. It's Earned.","In this episode of Saffron Files, Justin Roberti and Dingo discuss the fallout from the Kelp DAO exploit, the importance of rebuilding trust through stronger security, and explore the risks and possibilities of AI-powered programmable money.",{"file":883,"episode":885},{"url":884},"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1780923061-saffron-files-4-21-26_episode_7.mp3",8,{"id":887,"date":888,"slug":889,"title":890,"excerpt":891,"podcast":892,"thumbnail":11,"cat":11},"SCOc9fstQ-e5Z_XDR8Ruzw","2026-04-11","never-blindly-sign-even-from-friends","Never Blindly Sign, Even From Friends","Justin Roberti and Dingo break down the Drift Protocol exploit and how social engineering, not just code, keeps taking DeFi down. They also cover Dingo's takeaways from EthCC, from institutional adoption to the tension between permissioned finance and DeFi's roots.",{"file":893,"episode":895},{"url":894},"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1780923063-saffron-files-4-11-26_episode_6.mp3",7,{"id":897,"date":898,"slug":899,"title":900,"excerpt":901,"podcast":902,"thumbnail":11,"cat":11},"JLSgifPvS--3r6G6HRvOpw","2026-03-30","is-bitcoin-even-a-hedge-anymore","Is Bitcoin Even a Hedge Anymore?","In this episode of Saffron Files, Justin Roberti and Dingo discuss Bitcoin’s response to macroeconomic uncertainty, the stalled Clarity Act, stablecoin yield, tokenized financial infrastructure and the risk of TradFi absorbing DeFi on unfavorable terms.",{"file":903,"episode":905},{"url":904},"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1784226943-saffron-files-3-30-26.wav",6,{"id":907,"date":908,"slug":909,"title":910,"excerpt":911,"podcast":11,"thumbnail":912,"cat":11},"AZoQg8JLRXKPxebL_e0C5g","2026-03-16","the-day-crypto-entered-the-federal-reserve","The Day Crypto Entered the Federal Reserve","Dingo breaks down Kraken Financial becoming the first crypto institution to receive a Federal Reserve master account, and what direct access to the Fed's payment rails actually means. He unpacks why this is more significant than the hype suggests, and what it signals for the future boundary between TradFi and crypto.",{"id":913,"alt":11,"title":11,"focalPoint":914,"width":916,"height":917,"thumbnail":918,"small":919,"medium":920,"responsiveImage":921,"video":11},"T2YzfwtjShS4MbNU07qgXg",{"x":915,"y":915},0.5,1252,500,"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778615782-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-56-10-pm.png?auto=format&fit=max&h=600&q=85&w=600","https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778615782-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-56-10-pm.png?auto=format&fit=max&h=1000&q=85&w=1000","https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778615782-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-56-10-pm.png?auto=format&fit=max&h=1500&q=85&w=1500",{"srcSet":922,"webpSrcSet":923,"sizes":924,"src":925,"width":916,"height":917,"aspectRatio":926,"alt":11,"title":11,"base64":927,"bgColor":928},"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778615782-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-56-10-pm.png?auto=format&dpr=0.25&fit=max&h=2440&q=85&w=2440 313w,https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778615782-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-56-10-pm.png?auto=format&dpr=0.5&fit=max&h=2440&q=85&w=2440 626w,https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778615782-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-56-10-pm.png?auto=format&dpr=0.75&fit=max&h=2440&q=85&w=2440 939w,https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778615782-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-56-10-pm.png?auto=format&fit=max&h=2440&q=85&w=2440 1252w","","(max-width: 1252px) 100vw, 1252px","https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778615782-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-56-10-pm.png?auto=format&fit=max&h=2440&q=85&w=2440",2.504,"data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAoHBwgHBgoRCwgLDQ0NDg8ODg0NDhYNFg4OFxUZGBYfFhUaHysjGh0oHRUWJDUlKC0vMjIyGSI4PTcwPCsxMi8BCgsLDg4OHA4QEC8cFh0vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vL//AABEIAAoAGAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAZAAACAwEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAwIFBgD/xAAdEAABAwUBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAMxAgQFEhQy/8QAFQEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQL/xAAXEQADAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASEC/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwDCC/fFMJr+Qf5YQqA1hTdA5YThwllYMjcaeUUykDSFyG6J/9k=","#6e59c5",{"id":930,"date":931,"slug":932,"title":933,"excerpt":934,"podcast":11,"thumbnail":935,"cat":11},"C4TkTeV8RGOmVPJ4nF4ycA","2026-03-06","the-japanese-yen-carry-trade","The Japanese Yen Carry Trade","Tupelo breaks down the Japanese yen carry trade, nearly 30 years of cheap borrowed yen that's propped up global asset prices, and what happens now that it's unwinding. He examines why the sell-off could pressure equities, real estate and crypto alike, and what a Treasury response might mean for a softer landing.",{"id":936,"alt":11,"title":11,"focalPoint":937,"width":938,"height":939,"thumbnail":940,"small":941,"medium":942,"responsiveImage":943,"video":11},"esJf1tAZRKO0PvQxiPZ6kQ",{"x":915,"y":915},1250,498,"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778616048-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-59-38-pm.png?auto=format&fit=max&h=600&q=85&w=600","https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778616048-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-59-38-pm.png?auto=format&fit=max&h=1000&q=85&w=1000","https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778616048-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-59-38-pm.png?auto=format&fit=max&h=1500&q=85&w=1500",{"srcSet":944,"webpSrcSet":923,"sizes":945,"src":946,"width":938,"height":939,"aspectRatio":947,"alt":11,"title":11,"base64":948,"bgColor":949},"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778616048-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-59-38-pm.png?auto=format&dpr=0.25&fit=max&h=2440&q=85&w=2440 312w,https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778616048-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-59-38-pm.png?auto=format&dpr=0.5&fit=max&h=2440&q=85&w=2440 625w,https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778616048-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-59-38-pm.png?auto=format&dpr=0.75&fit=max&h=2440&q=85&w=2440 937w,https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778616048-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-59-38-pm.png?auto=format&fit=max&h=2440&q=85&w=2440 1250w","(max-width: 1250px) 100vw, 1250px","https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1778616048-screenshot-2026-05-12-at-3-59-38-pm.png?auto=format&fit=max&h=2440&q=85&w=2440",2.5100401606425704,"data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAoHBwgHBgoIEAgLDRUQDhgNDQ0OGhINDhENFx8ZGBYTIhUaHysjGh0oHSEWJDUlKC0vMjIyGSI4PTcwPCsxMi8BCgsLDg0OHBAQHDscFhwvLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vLy8vL//AABEIAAoAGAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAWAAEBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGAAP/xAAhEAABAQcFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAIDBBIVIUEFETE0cf/EABYBAAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECA//EABgRAAMBAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABERIC/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwAZBPXhltlLGy8pYO2EZ08XZ9TN6BSBbCDUKPuheNmaheFLeL6xUjoWI//Z","#c63835",{"id":951,"date":931,"slug":952,"title":953,"excerpt":954,"podcast":955,"thumbnail":11,"cat":11},"aanfY847SdCYlqQOe0BdIA","the-trillion-dollar-trade-youve-never-heard-of","The Trillion-Dollar Trade You've Never Heard Of","Justin Roberti, Dingo and Tupelo dig into how the unwinding Japanese yen carry trade could pressure stocks, real estate, crypto and other risk assets. They also cover Kraken Financial's direct access to the Federal Reserve's payment system and what it signals for crypto's integration with TradFi.",{"file":956,"episode":958},{"url":957},"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1780923064-saffron-files-3-6-26_episode_4.mp3",4,{"id":960,"date":961,"slug":962,"title":963,"excerpt":964,"podcast":11,"thumbnail":965,"cat":11},"Uv_Ms1EsRF-hbKR8nZTlcA","2026-02-27","why-range-matters-in-uniswap-v3-same-assets-different-outcomes","Why Range Matters in Uniswap v3: Same Assets, Different Outcomes ","Dingo breaks down why range matters in Uniswap v3, using a farmers-market analogy to explain how liquidity concentration shapes returns. 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They also break down Dingo's article on Uniswap v3 liquidity ranges and how Saffron Vaults redistribute risk between fixed and variable participants.",{"file":985,"episode":987},{"url":986},"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1780923062-saffron-files-2-27-26_episode_3.ogg",3,{"id":989,"date":990,"slug":991,"title":992,"excerpt":993,"podcast":994,"thumbnail":11,"cat":11},"exUG79KYS1mPhGFi7Sizdg","2026-02-20","the-vaults-dont-create-yield-they-structure-it","The Vaults Don't Create Yield. They Structure It.","Justin Roberti and Dingo are joined by Saffron head of research Rx to break down how Saffron Vaults structure, rather than generate, yield, and what fixed and variable participants need to understand before entering a vault. Dingo also weighs in on the Clarity Act and the shifting regulatory landscape for crypto in the US.",{"file":995,"episode":997},{"url":996},"https://www.datocms-assets.com/195831/1780923064-saffron-files-2-20-26_episode_2.mp3",2,1786028609370]